By Marilyn Odendahl
The Indiana Citizen
June 20, 2025
In the classroom, Bobbi Fisher always impressed upon her U.S. history students the importance of understanding the Constitution, democracy and the responsibilities of citizenship.
“I used to tell my eighth grade students, ‘No matter what, you’re always going to use this information,” Fisher recalled. “’You may take algebra or some kind of science and never use it again, but this, especially the being a citizen part and understanding how to decide who you’re going to vote for and so forth, that’s something you’re going to use.’”
That lesson stuck with Joe Ulery, one of Fisher’s students in the first class she taught at Lincoln Middle School in Logansport in the late 1980s. The now-retired teacher and her former student reconnected through Facebook where their online conversations about current events led to a meeting for coffee at the Westfield Public Library and more conversation which eventually landed on the idea of doing a podcast.
Fisher and Ulery briefly tossed around the possibility of turning on the microphones and talking politics, but decided they could fill a void by returning to their roots. On Jan. 9 of this year, the first episode of the “Plain Civics” podcast went live.
The podcast is currently available on all the platforms where podcasts are offered as well as on the Facebook page for “Plain Civics.” Also, the podcast now has a home at The Indiana Citizen, where episodes can be accessed through the nonprofit news site’s home page.
Ulery, an anchor and producer for Public News Service, sees a “news hook” for the Constitution every single day in his job.
“It’s hard to turn on the news or read on a website and not see the things that our Founding Fathers were struggling with when they were trying to come up with the language for the Constitution,” Ulery said, noting the issues and concepts debated at the Constitutional Convention in the summer of 1787, such as due process, First Amendment rights and the Necessary and Proper Clause, which gives Congress the power to make laws, are still part of America’s daily conversation.
“Things that we’ve talked about on the podcast aren’t ancient history,” Ulery said. “They’re still living, breathing today and I think they’re more important now than ever.”
In preparation for the podcast planning meeting, Fisher filled her notebook with a page-and-a-half of potential topics. The teacher and student brainstormed, deciding to focus on civics because they wanted to help people refresh their knowledge of the structure and function of the U.S. government. Then the pair developed the format for their podcast.
“Plain Civics” mirrors a classroom. Fisher leads the listeners through the topic, explaining the hows and whys, while Ulery will periodically raise his hand, like a student, to ask a question or make an observation. The podcast started with multiple episodes on the Constitutional Convention and has progressed to covering the ratification of the Constitution and habeas corpus, a legal concept to protect against unlawful detention. On the syllabus for future episodes are the Electoral College and the Bill of Rights.
Fisher said she tries to keep the material and presentation at an eighth-grade level, so the podcast is “simple, but not too simple” and enjoyable.
“I think people just need to have a better understanding of not just our government, but also our political system,” Fisher said. They should know “what the underlying beliefs are and why our government is structured the way it is.”
Arriving at college as a trumpet major, Fisher’s enthusiasm to study music gave way to a love of American history. Teaching civics became a passion which she nurtured by attending summer institutes and seminars taught by leading constitutional scholars. Also, she fostered zeal for civics in her students by starting and coaching a “We the People” team, which simulates a mock congressional hearing by having the teenagers answer questions about the application of constitutional principles. Moreover, she planned and guided an annual class trip to Washington, D.C., for 20 years.
However, Fisher emphasized that civics is more than being able to recite the preamble to the Declaration of Independence, identify the three branches of government and the principles underlying federalism and the separation of powers.
“I also want to teach people what it means to be a good citizen,” Fisher said. “You know, it’s not just the document and the rights and so forth, but what does it take? What are your responsibilities as a citizen? I think that’s an important part of civics education as well.”
Ulery knew in order to keep listeners’ attention and get them to return, the podcast had to be engaging from the very first episode. Civics, he said, can be a complex subject, so he and Fisher provide some levity at the beginning of each podcast by opening with “The Fast Five,” a series of questions – such as “What childhood memory makes you smile?” – to let the audience “peek behind the curtain” and get to know the hosts.
Each 25-minute episode closes with “The Pop Quiz” to spark listeners’ interest to get them to go to the podcast’s Facebook page to read the additional information provided about each topic and to keep them intrigued so they come back for the next episode. The questions, which have asked the listeners to name the three branches of government or name two of the rights mentioned in the Declaration of Independence, are drawn from the Naturalization Interview and Test, which all immigrants have to pass in order to become U.S. citizens.
Ulery is confident he and Fisher will also be able to keep their civics conversation going beyond the 26 episodes they plan to do in 2025.
“It’s a broad topic,” Ulery said. “You can talk about voting, you can talk about how government is set up, you can talk about local government, you can talk about how school boards and referendum work. We have so many places to go.”
Work for each episode begins with Fisher writing the script. She essentially crafts a research paper, diving into whatever the topic is and drawing upon her library of books and materials as well as resources on the internet. Then she revises and rewrites to ensure information is clear and enjoyable, so the audience will keep listening and learning.
When Ulery gets the script, he will make a couple of places where he can inject a question or comment. He also likes to share a healthy dose of his humor. In a post in May on the podcast’s Facebook page highlighting a new episode, titled “How Did Our Constitution Originate? Part III,” Ulery has this to say: “No, it didn’t just magically appear like a Hogwarts’ letter. Madison and the gang had to battle it out … big states, small states, slavery … and how to keep 13 colonies from acting like 13 grumpy neighbors.”
Fisher and Ulery usually record the podcast in a conference room at either the Westfield or the Logansport Cass County public library. A little light banter is all the pair do to warm up their vocal chords before they start taping.
Ulery admitted he had difficulty making the transition to calling his co-host “Bobbi,” rather than “Mrs. Fisher,” but he is grateful for the friendship the two have created.
“If you would have said to me in the late ‘80s that one day you and I would be sitting in a room recording a podcast together, I would have said that’s just not going to happen,” Ulery told Fisher. “But I love that part of our story, though, because, I think, that it just really adds credence to what we’re doing. The fact that this really is my teacher, it’s not made up. She was my teacher and she started the passion. And here we are continuing the story.”
Dwight Adams, an editor and writer based in Indianapolis, edited this article. He is a former content editor, copy editor and digital producer at The Indianapolis Star and IndyStar.com, and worked as a planner for other newspapers, including the Louisville Courier Journal.
The Indiana Citizen is a nonpartisan, nonprofit platform dedicated to increasing the number of informed and engaged Hoosier citizens. We are operated by the Indiana Citizen Education Foundation, Inc., a 501(c)(3) public charity. For questions about the story, contact Marilyn Odendahl at marilyn.odendahl@indianacitizen.org.
